See the stormy debate • Deri: I did not serve in the camp • Lapid: One does not get killed during Torah study

An acute debate opened last night a weekly series of debates in the program, 'Meshal Cham'. Deri from Shas, and Yair Lapid from Yesh Atid stood on both sides for the first conflict. They delivered the goods - big time. For the moderator - Nissim Meshal, there did not remain a lot of work, and allowed the two to fight long.


B'Chadrei Charedim serves a transcript of the conflict:


Deri: "Likud reminds me of the Mapai, historical, patronage, arrogance, conceit. They are 'useful' to give us an office. This game is over. Shas stands to take the fate of the Sephardim in their hands; discourse after the election will be different. Likud is different, its direction is civil marriage, a different culture - not that of Menachem Begin and of tradition.

Lapid: "This conflict 'within the family' will end the day after the election. There is a huge leap in draft dodging, this is not what took place when the state was established, I do not understand why my son should go to the army and they do not need to go?"


Deri: "I want to tell Yair first of all, that most of the Shas MKs serve, and we have in Shas MKs who are paratroopers, career and tank crews, facts: when Shas received 17 seats, among the soldiers we received the most votes after the Likud. We opened the Nahal Haredi we have three battalions there, if the military would be cooperating there would already be three divisions. The army does not want to integrate the Haredim.

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"I took the platform of Yesh Atid, and I see that Lapid himself writes that the mass of the Haredim should go for national service, when the Israeli government decides to recruit 1300 in order not to close the civil service, came a second Lapid, the one who is pressured about mandates, and went to the Supreme Court. You know who should be the respondent there? The first Yair Lapid – who wrote the platform. Separate the ultra-Orthodox and the yeshiva students, the orthodox need frames to bear the burden on their lifestyle, yeshiva students who are really studying, it's not tens of thousands, it's something else - they carry the burden more than others."


Lapid: "going to the army is also the possibility of coming back in a coffin; no one has ever been killed in the tent of the Torah or killed in a yeshiva.

Deri: "Just as Lapid understands that you cannot recruit Arabs by force only consensual and voluntary, those who seek votes continue to talk about recruiting, who wants a solution - it must be an agreement and consensus, as there are now thousands of haredi soldiers in the Air Force and Navy, they do not sit in the Galei Zahal and in the camp."


Lapid: "I want you to keep the Ten Commandments, six days work and do all your work, what do you allow tens of thousands to sit at home and not work?"


Deri: "If you keep, 'on the seventh day you rest'... I'm the greatest disciple of work, you sound as if when Shas was founded all Sephardim were at university and Shas has made them ignorant, stop it."

Deri: Yair should agree that he won't sit with me in the government

From the military issue, the duo went on to discuss Deri's conviction.


Mashal: "Do you think Yair, that Deri - convicted of bribery - should be in politics?"


Lapid: "Every criminal who was in prison should be given a chance to recover, it is important, but one who robbed a bank – we will not return him to work at a bank, Deri should not go back to where the crime was committed."


Deri: "I do not know who to address, the level of morality of Lapid who was sitting here a month ago and you asked him about Olmert and he said he did not want to comment, he has a different level of morality between the Ashkenazi Olmert and the Sephardic Deri. There is no democracy on the conditions, stop the arrogance, I'm sitting here because the public wants me."

Lapid: "The claim of Aryeh that he is underprivileged is absurd, a 27-year-old man who was CEO of the Interior Ministry."


Deri: "Thanks to Shas which stood up and took the fate of the Sephardim in their hands."


Lapid: "I do not accept lectures from convicted criminals. It really is a shame that the public is going after a person who was convicted."


Deri: "If you are such a moral person and say I'm not worthy to sit in the government, then declare right here before everyone that you will not sit with me in the same government."


Lapid: "I'm not the one who elements the government, I think that whoever elements it should decide who will sit there, and I do not know if I will sit in it, I cannot answer hypothetical questions. I will definitely not sit in the government, for example that will not work on equal burden."

Lapid: I am for cutting the haredim and settlers

At this point the discussion became heated and moved to education, budget, and discrimination.


Lapid: "Shas has created a whole generation who does not get a good enough education and better starting positions to fit in, with no core curriculum studies, give children the opportunity to learn computers, math and English - that will enable them to succeed in life, it is important to study Torah, I think the secular should learn more Judaism, but even you. And secondly, they divided the people of Israel, they say - I do not care about them. Some people are unable to buy an apartment and hear thecheap auctions of Atias in Beit Shemesh. "


Deri: "Concerning core curriculum I checked the data today, 95% of Maayan Chinuch Torani which is the Shas educational network for boys, and 100% of the girls, are learning core curriculum fully.

"All the political leadership in the center of Israel is pure Ashkenazi, Netanyahu, Lieberman, Lapid, Livni, Yachimovich, Galon, even our little sister - Litzman and Gafni. There was one chief of staff Shaul Mofaz, he had 28 seats, they lowered him below the threshold - because he's Sephardic. The same as I dealt with dedication in the Arab sector not because of mandates - it might even hurt me - but out of compassion for minorities, I'm on the side of the weak. There are studies in this binder with amazing data, for every five unemployed Sephardim you have one Ashkenazi, Sephardic are three times poorer than Ashkenazim, 9% of academic staff are Sephardim only, 3% of women professors. There are two states of Israel, of those who have and those who do not have. Yair belongs to those who have; he does not know poverty, what disadvantaged is.

Lapid: "No person received more opportunities than you."


Deri: "I don’t have 22 million and a jeep like you, I make a decent living., But when I was a little boy who came from Morocco and two months later - I'll never forget the look on my father's face, when he could not bring food home, thank G-d I got out of that situation, but I do not want that 900 thousand children will go through that, even if both spouses work from sunrise until dusk - they get four thousand shekels per month.

"I will not sit in a government that will cut up transversely cowardly, maybe it will solve the problem for Yair that he is willing to sit there, right, you have to cut, you can tax differently - more on apartments and luxury cars, I support income testing. I was in the Rabin government and Rabin took responsibility and chopped security, these social gaps are a greater danger than security."



Lapid: "I will not sit in a government that is cutting back to the middle class to hand out to communities and sectors."


Deri: "Are you in favor that VAT on bread should be like VAT on a Jeep?"


Lapid: "and settlements cut?"


Deri: "Why? They are not human? They don’t need bread? They don’t need roads? Remove the garbage? Don’t need security? Are they loathsome, why don’t you ask me about Ramat Aviv? Did they go on a mission for Israel and Israeli governments and we need to give them."

Lapid: We need equal distribution of the cake, the Haredim are getting more than they deserve and settlers receive. Settlers outside the settlement blocs must be cut. We must reduce the government and help small businesses.


Deri: "I support it. He represents those who do not end the month, and the trip abroad and car, and I represent those who don’t begin the month - that's the difference."


Lapid: "The difference is that I represent those who come to contribute to the country and you the ones who come to blackmail the state."


Deri: "This is politics of hatred of a party which once existed and vanished, do not go that way."

Deri: Members of Shas will have respected positions

After viewing the recent surveys, Mashal asked who the two will advise the President to impose the government formation.


Deri: "Netanyahu is definetely forming the government; we will recommend him to be prime minister. Who crowned him? Yachimovich and Lapid and Livni as soon as they did not unify together and formed a block against a block and approached us - the story ends, there is satisfaction of all parties to join Bibi."

"I see Yair as a partner I hope there will not be a problem to sit with me. Likud will finish between 30 and -33-34 seats, and we will have another 20-25 seats minimum, at least Bennett Shas and Yair to form a government."


Lapid: "I'm not in anyone's pocket, I do not recommend currently about anything. Voters are entitled to know that my party will not sit with a government that does not fulfill its commitments. When the results come we will recommend."

Deri: "Shas will not be the Minister of Tourism, we will negotiate as we know, and my friends at Shas will hold prominent positions just like they have until today. They will not turn the Shas party, into a sectored party; I represent the sector, which they do not have. Poverty has no yarmulke and no sector."


Lapid: "All the voters of Livni know that she is not running for prime minister, that she will not last a day after the election, she is leaving."

'בחדרי' גם ברשתות החברתיות - הצטרפו!