"They attack us, but we are also guilty". Interview towards Yom Tov

It's hard, very hard, if not impossible, to catch Hagaon R' Yizchak Dovid Grossman, Rav of Migdal Haemek, these days at the end of Elul, for a talk which is not entirely in ruchnius. Last Thursday, he was at the religious section of the Ma'asiyahu jail, he spoke words of Torah and chizuk in front of the prisoners. What is more befitting than to remind them how much fear and trembling takes hold of a person who is before his judgment. What is more befitting than to remind them and all of us that we are all before a crucial court case, the judgment of Ribono Shel Olam

Last Shabbos he stayed in Bnei Brak on the occasion of a Shabbos Seva Brochos for his grandson, staying at his daughter's home in Shikun He. A few hours before Shabbos, we sat down to a festive talk, which was defined in advance as a "Kodesh" interview, one which is proper for the atmosphere of the Yomim Noraim, but soon tuned into a fascinating Mussar talk, one which only Harav Grossman knows how to present.

edit: moran kohen
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As one who came close to a jubilee ago to the northern far city of Migdal Haemek, one whom you could catch next to youth with "an earring in his ear" and without any spiritual connection, who has turned the work of Kiruv into a real art. He is the only one who knows how to strengthen soldiers with a BBQ, and how to extract youth from clubs into the array of the Kodesh clubs he has set up around the country. This is the man that the Israeli police and the courts rely on with anything which pertains to arrests of criminals, knowing that what he can do, not many could achieve and are able to influence.

In between, we tried, David and I, to thread a little "politics", a little Rabbonus, a few Rabbanei Zohar, and a sentence here and there about the post of Chief Rabbi which is destined to be vacant in a few months' time. It should be said in his praise that he managed not to be dragged into it. Any hint from his words is the responsibility of the reader only.

"Next time, on Erev Pesach, when we will sit with the Rav… will we sit with the Chief Rabbi of Israel?" was the first landing question, which it was clear to us that the Rav will not answer directly. For Erev Rosh Hashanah is not exactly the time to release announcements and declarations of this sort.

"I hope we will sit in Yerushalayim with Meshiach Tzidkenu, be'ezrat Hashem. I don't want to go into this issue at the moment… we are now on Erev Rosh Hashana which is the Day of Judgment. "Hayom ya'amid bamishpat kol yetzurei kedem". Yesterday I visited the Ma'asiyahu jail and talked to the prisoners. There was a great awakening there, the former president Moshe Katzav also took part, as well as many others.

"I told them: each one of you who stood at the court, how much did he invest in that? How much money, attorneys… and with all the pain, this is when you deal with a judgment of flesh and blood. We are standing for judgment about life. "Who is for life, and who for death, who in fire, and who in water", everything which will transpire the entire year with a person. So these days one has to utilize the time. To think each moment how I am about to arrive for judgment, what Zchus can I do in order to be acquitted. Go up to a person who has a court case, even only with the Income Tax, when you go up to talk to him he'll tell you: leave me alone now, I'm busy.

"So I say too: at the moment I'm busy preparing myself, to benefit the public, I go from place to place, from Shiurim to Shiurim, from one Kibbutz to the next, from one jail to the next, and I believe that the merit of the public will help me too. When my name comes to Heaven they will look at me not only as an individual, for then the situation won't be good, but if they see I'm connected to many, and benefit them – this is what will help me".

* We won't go into political details of the matter, but in terms of Jewish responsibility, national – lately there are great fears even among Gedolei Yisroel about the whole issue of the Rabbinate, they are talking about the fact that there might be a religious Zionistic Chief Rabbi, perhaps one of the Tzohar Rabbis, there are Supreme Court cases around the issue – this is a crucial point…

"The point is crucial, a very important point, one which pertains to all of Klal Yisroel, but when its time will come we will talk about it, not now when we are before Rosh Hashanna and Yom Kippur. Be'ezrat Hashem after the Chagim, when it will be more actual, we'll talk about it.

* Does the Rav intend to consult with Gedolei Yisroel?

"Always, with everything I do, I consult with Gedolei Yisroel, and in this matter too I will consult with them".

In 2003, the question of Harav Grossman's candidacy as Chief Rabbi of Israel came up. His father, Harav Yisroel Grossman, Rosh Yeshiva of Pinsk Karlin, forbade him to do it. The father and his son showed up at the home of Harav Eliashiv zt"l, in order for him to rule, and the Rav gave a psak that the son must listen to his father, in that specific case. At the time, his father told him that next time the question will arise, "you must consult with Gedolei Hador".

Four years later, his father passed away, with the instruction still in force. Now, when that same question will arise again, Harav Grossman intends to fulfill his father's will and consult with Gedolei Yisroel, but the big question is with whom he will consult after the ptira of Harav Eliashiv zt"l.

* Does the Rav know already with whom to consult?

"When Harav Eliashiv was alive, I was very, very close to him, extremely. Before him there was the Steipler, and of course the Lelov Rebbe. Now I consult with Harav Wazner and of course with the Lelov Rebbe shlit"a. And also with other Gedolim, whom we all know.

"This whole issue is very serious, and pertains to Klal Yisroel, but now I am concentrating on benefitting the many, so that I and Klal Yisroel will be zoche to a good year".

* What brings the Rav, a talmid of Etz Chaim Yeshiva, a man of the old Yishuv, to leave Jerusalem, and move to Migdal Ha'emek which was 45 years ago after the Six Day War, when the Rav moved there, a development town…

"I grew up in the home of one of Gedolei Yisrel. My father was known as a Gadol Batorah on the one hand, A Rosh Yeshiva and one of the Gedolim, and his uniqueness – two volumes have now been published about him – on the one hand he was a Gadol Batorah, a Rosh Yeshiva for thousands of Talmidim, all his life he wrote books, 18 books in Halacha and on the Shas, and at the same time he dealt with whatever issue pertained to Klal Yisroel. He was one of the founders of the Chinuch Atzmai, and of the 'Hapeilim' organization.

"When I was a small child we lived, ten children, in an apartment of about 60 sq. meters, but my father went to Rosh Ha'ayin with a loudspeaker, it was winter and the pupils lived in tents and in the mud. He said: "I have a place for you in Jerusalem". He brought home five children.

"When I sat Shiva for my father, the Prime Minister and ministers came to me… I took out the bed on which I slept, I was not the only one who slept in the bed, thanks to the other children who slept with me. I finished to tell the story, and with Hashgocha Pratis one of those children, Rephael, came in, he hadn't heard the story I told, but came in and burst out crying: "This is the bed on which I slept"…

"This issue of giving, I got from father. We lived in Batei Varsha in Meah Shearim, which is adjacent to the Mosrara suburb. I was 17 when I invited children from the neighborhood to our home, I had an attraction for helping them. In the Six Day war there was a great awakening, the war got everyone into fear that Eretz Yisroel is about to be destroyed. And here came the victory, it was on Shavuos, everyone ran to the Kosel with great excitement, and I say to myself: "What can I give in thanks to Hakadosh Boruch Hu for the miracles…" then I decided in my heart to volunteer a year in order to do something for the drop out youths.

"I was very close, like a son, to the holy Rebbe of Lelov, R' Moshe Mordechai Biderman zt"l, and like a chossid, I came in to him and told him that I had a great "hisorerus" and I would like to do something. He told me (in Yiddish): Maybe you will travel and see what you can do in Migdal Haemek. I had never heard of that place, I didn't know if it's in the south or the north…

"When I started finding out, they told me – don't ask, this is a city of criminals. Today it is a wonderful city, but then this was its image. I said to myself – the Rebbe said – so you do. I got there, an avrech from Meah Shearim, I started asking where is the Talmud Torah, they didn't understand. What Talmud Torah? Where is the Yeshiva? There is no Yeshiva. Where is the shull… there is none. So where will I find the youth? They told me: in the discothèque…

Discotheque? I had never heard of that. I asked where it is, they showed me. I got there, everyone got a shock, an avrech with a beard and peyos, they were sure that someone had died and I was looking for a minyan… I said – I would like to live here, they didn't understand. I don't know how to explain, but at that moment there was a "click"… They got connected to me. We rented an apartment, those discotheque boys started coming to my home, for Shabbos, for Yontef."

A while passed, one day a Jew came to the Rav, and told him that his brother is in jail, in the Shata jail. "I told him, your brother is my brother too, let's go visit him… I got to the Shata jail, first time you come in… hundreds of prisoners, a terrible physical condition… I went up to the jail manager and said: "My heart is breaking from everything that's happening here, I want to go in twice a week to do a rehabilitation program for the prisoners and teach them Torah". I thought about Pirkei Avos, which is an easy thing… The manager said – "go ahead"."

This is how his tractate of activity in jails started, when today this is an extensive network of schools in the jails, with more than a thousand prisoners taking part. And this activity is besides the club activity in which rich spiritual programs are being given to drop out youth.

In this way, the Rav moved from one activity to the next, from one jail to the next, arranging kids from hard homes into Torah institutions.

"Over time, I realized I'm sitting with prisoners, when you talk to them, you discover they have a neshoma, emotion… He is a human being. So what happened? Suddenly you understand this is the background from his home. He had no father, he had no home… Once I made a Chanuka party at the Shata jail, after the party I spontaneously stopped, and gave a kiss to one of the prisoners. A few days later he wrote me a letter: "I am the prisoner you gave a kiss to, and I'm sitting and crying, this is the first time in my life that I got a kiss from someone who loves me". This taught me the problem…"

This story brought the Rav to the decision to establish a "home" for children, a place in which they will be happy, will receive love and care. This was in 1972, when he founded "Migdal Ohr" with 18 children.

"Baruch Hashem, this developed, we now have 15,000 alumni and thousands of students, there are Dayanim, Rabbonim, alumni who are dealing in all fields – teachers, principals – who came out of there."

"You asked me how everything started, and I said "an awakening from above", which told me I have to do something. I thought I'm going for a year, but Baruch Hashem more than 40 years have passed…"

* Actually, the situation today is that the Israeli police rely on the Rav in cases of prisoners who are sent to Migdal Haemek for house arrests and the like…

"That's right. During the years, they've seen the results, they've seen how over the years hundreds of prisoners have been rehabilitated at us, part of them completely, to the point that the children don't even know that their father once sat in jail. In this way I got the trust of courts as well, and when I show up and say that I'm taking upon myself to help rehabilitate – they believe me".

* What is there in the Rav that turns him into one who does not frighten the secular? I try to think about it that the Rav will give his candidacy as Chief Rabbi, and of course we are not talking about it now… It's not supposed to frighten off the secular public. What is the reason for that?

"I'll tell you. I claim there are no secular Jews at all. There are no secular Jews! Every Jew has a share of G-d from above, and as it is written in the Haftorah of this Shabbos "Ve'amech Kulam Tzadikim". In order to strengthen his words, he tells the fascinating story which he has from the time of the war in Lebanon. "A story which is just unbelievable".

"It was in the middle of the war, the war in Lebanon." I get a phone call from a famous Jew from Jerusalem whose son is a paratrooper. He went to visit his son on the eve of Tisha Be'av and found 700 paratroopers in a hanger of tanks, in Sirkin. The group was supposed to enter Lebanon, but then the government had not yet decided if they are going in or not, and they got stuck there. Hundreds of soldiers in a hanger, without a possibility to take a shower, without normal food. It's terrible… He asked me what can be done. I said to him – bring them all to me to Migdal Haemek".
"And so
it was. A few hours later, all the soldiers came to Migdal Haemek. They get down from the buses, not really understanding what is happening to them. I shout to them: "Chevra, first thing go to the pool". We have a pool in our institution. They didn't understand what was happening, a Jew with a beard and peyos stands in front of them, and instead of teaching them Torah, he tells them to go to the pool… They went into the pool, they felt different already. In the meantime, we prepared the rooms for them like a hotel, our dormitories are on a hotel level…

"The next surprise was, no less than – "See what we got thanks to you, a Sefer Torah". I phoned up the Sofer, I told him – do me a favor, tomorrow at 7am be here with the Sefer Torah, and so it was. At 7 am I came into the dining room, I said to the soldiers – Chevra, your gift has come, a Sefer Torah. Whoever wants can ask the Sofer to make him a Shaliach to write a letter in the Sefer Torah, and this is a great thing because "Yisrael" stand for - there are 600,000 letters to the Torah.

You had to see, close to 700 paratroopers, one didn't forego this! Kibbutznikim, Moshavnikim, people of Hashomer Hatzair, each one said: I want a letter in the Sefer Torah. At night I explained to them what is a "shliach Mitzvah" who is not harmed. I said to them: I prepared shkalim here for you, whoever wants will take a shekel, will keep it, and after the war will give it to Tzedoka. One didn't forego! Engineers, doctors, each one came up and said: I want the shekel.

"A few days later they received an announcement that they are going into Lebanon. Before they went out, I was very moved. I said to them: Chevra, you have proved to Hakadosh Baruch Hu that you believe in Him, you have a letter in the Torah, you are shlichei Mitzva, I promise you that you are all returning safe and sound, and if my blessing will come true, I want a promise from you that after the war, no one goes home, not to his parents and not to his family – you are all coming back here to Migdal Haemek, we are making a Seudas Hodaya (thanksgiving party) here, saying "Hagomel" and going back home.

"A few days passed, the phone rings. On the line is the commander, Yoni: "Harav, the blessing was fulfilled, our brigade had miracles and wonders, everyone is well and sound, everyone is sitting on the buses on the Lebanese border and they want to come to the Rav."

The time was 2:30am. "I phone straight away to wake people up, we have to make a party. I look for an orchestra, I phone, the person asks me: What happened, did Mashiach arrive? But I got an orchestra. They came down from the buses, not one of them ran into the dormitory to take a shower, each one wanted to put his shekel first. One, one, one… Suddenly one of them stops the line and says: I must tell the Rav a story. We were a group of soldiers in Lebanon, we got a mission, and one of the soldiers made a mistake a lit a torch. The terrorists gathered we were there, and fired an anti-tank missile at us. I swear to you, Harav, in this village, all of a sudden, two horses jumped up in front of the missile, they got hit by it, and we were saved. Each one of them had stories…

"They got close to Hashem, they started keeping Shabbos, and until this day we are like family. Why am I telling you all this? Because when you give the right feeling, like it says "Like water a face to a face, so the heart of a man to a man". When you show that you appreciate them, they feel it. This is the way, I really love them."
* So maybe this is the way, to start with a pool and BBQ, and to finish with Tshuva.
"To give them, and the their pnimius (internal part) comes out, because every Jew has Hakadosh Baruch Hu inside him…"

*They are now talking a lot in the media about an attack in Iran. Yes, no… They say the prime Minister has asked and consulted with Rabbonim… Does the Rav think that the Prime Minister has to ask Rabbonim on such issues?

"Look here, there is nothing which is not connected to Torah. It says in the Zohar that when Hashem created the world, "Histakel Beoraysa" He looked in the Torah. Like a contractor who builds a building according to a plan which an architect prepared, so HK"B created the plan, looked in the Torah and according to his plan He created the world. That is, there is nothing which does not appear in the Torah. "One can find this in the Rambam: one looks in space, looks for milliards, in Hilchos Mada in the Rambam one can find it… and so it is in every matter".

He still remembers the days in which the late Prime Minister Menachem Begin z"l debated about a similar issue: attacking the nuclear plant in Iraq.

"There were probably those who were for and those who were against. The closest person to Begin was Yechiel Kadishai, who was originally from a family of Lelov Chassidim and his father was a real Tzadik and close to the Rebbe. Begin called him and sent him to consult with the Rebbe. The Rebbe told him to go and be successful. So he said. He went, and indeed he was successful. Beforehand, they said that the pile will explode, that hundreds of thousands will die, but nothing happened.
"B
ut the story is deeper. On that day, which was Shvuos, the Rebbe sat and said Tehillim. In the middle of saying Tehillim, the gabbai , R' Simcha Krakovsky, came in and suddenly the Rebbe said to him: "I am taking too much on myself" an hour later the Rebbe had a stroke. He was paralyzed for six years, until he passed away. When the Rebbe told Begin to go attack the atomic pile, he said to Hakadosh Boruch Hu – whatever has to happen to everyone, I accept upon myself.

"When there are such Tzadikim, there is someone to rely on. I think that Da'as Torah is always good, I don't think Da'as Torah is less than the opinion of experts, because there is everything in Torah. And I think that if the Prime Minister would consult with Gedolei Torah, this is good. Putin and other great personalities will not consult with Gedolei Yisroel, but Eretz Yisrael, the nation of Yisrael and the Torah of Yisrael – this goes together.

* The difference between the days of Begin and the days of Netanyahu is that when Begin consulted with the Lelov Rebbe, the media didn't attack him for that. Today the media really attacks…

"I'll tell you why. The media attacks everything. If there are those who are against Bibi, whatever he does won't be good. If he gets up on the right hand side, why not on the left, if on the left – why not on the right and so on… We know that. And in this matter even more so, because this is what "goes" more… The problem is that those who attack have never asked Rabbonim, they don't know what it means. One of the biggest problems to day is the lack of PR of the Hareidi public, it doesn't know how to explain itself.

Here, when someone is sick, they immediately turn to Fihrer. Everyone runs to Fihrer. In life endangering diseases, to determine what to do, they go and ask him. Why are you going to a Rav? Why not to a professor? But, you've seen that once, twice, three times Harav Fihrer succeeds, so you go to him. One who criticizes going to Rabbonim, should go once and consult about any issue he wants, and understand what the meaning of human brain is, of Torah, of Da'as Torah.

"To my great dismay, they attack us for everything which has to do with Yiddishkeit. But to my great dismay, we are also guilty of it, because we don't know how to bring to expression the light and beauty there is in Torah. The beauty there is in the Hareidi public. To my dismay, when a story which is not good happens in the Hareidi public, they make a whole story out of it, and ignore all the Chessed, the civil service. I think that when the Prime Minister is going for a very serious matter which is very controversial, and consults with a Rav, he brings him the data, the words of the officers who say no, and the reasons, as well as those who say yes and the reasons, and the Rav will consider and decide."

* So maybe this is another and important reason that the Rav has to submit his candidacy for Chief Rabbi. This will be his opportunity to appear in the media, on the television, and help with PR.

But the Rav is adamant not to be dragged into the issue. "I think we now have to prepare and pray that the full redemption will come. We were promised that the Geula will come and it's about time, this is the end of times. The situation is so terrible, physically, spiritually, all the turmoil in the world, we now – before Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur - have to concentrate on "Meloch al kol Haolam kulu bichvodecha", "Ve'yeda kol paul di ata pealto, veyhavin kol yetzur ki ata yetzarto".
"After the Chagim," he returns to the topic, "we will sit peacefully, consult with Gedolei Yisroel, and we will talk".

What does the Rav have to say to those who visit our site towards Rosh Hashana, 5773?
"The truth is that we all agree that the internet is a great danger. I can tell very harsh stories how the internet caused divorces because the husband comes on the internet to things which he shouldn't. And I deal with youth and know about the danger. But those who do this for their parnosa, for whatever reason, and I'm sure they consulted, I'll tell them a few things.

"Am Yisroel, be strong. First of all, we should know how to appreciate ourselves. To contemplate more what it means to be a Jew, to understand the value of the world "Jew". This has become standard. We have to think: "Boruch elokeinu shebra'anu lichvodo". The Creator has chosen us to represent Him, we are children of Hakadosh Boruch Hu. And especially the hareidi world has to take upon itself to behave well, because whatever it does, they say: "look what the religious look like". The Gemora says that a Talmid chochom who has a stain on his clothes, is chayav misa (deserves death). Why does he deserve to die? What happened? What did he do all in all? But people observe you. So we, our public, have to be very careful, because chilul Hashem is the worst thing in the world. So I always daven to Hashem that we will merit to do Kidush Hashem.

"Secondly, to invest more in Chinuch. Today there is a problem of drop out youths, which I deal with. We have now set up a special youth village to treat these children, next to Beit Govrin, and I walk about the hareidi cities and see what happens with these children at night. Our public must understand that the street is enticing, it is very easy to sin nowadays, and one has to invest more in love for the children, in taking care of the children. That the Shabbos table with be in simcha, to invest. You can't tell a child only "do so and so", a child has to feel that he will loose out if he leaves home, that he will care that I love him.

"I talked in front of educators, and told them about an orphan who I brought from overseas to the request of one of the Rabbonim. I invested in this child, his name his Yitzchak, many efforts. One day, I get back from overseas, another trip for the institutions, and I meet this child and see he had a haircut "like a rooster"… Such spikes… He looked really frightening. He came to me to say hello, and I said to him: "Yitzchak, I love you so much, I want to kiss you, but I can't with this haircut. What should I do? Give me an advice…"

"Yitzchak disappeared, when he came back, after less than half an hour, he was bald… And from that moment he changed. I said to the mechanchim- I could have shouted at him at that moment, why did you do so and so, but these children need love, they need a father and mother who will explain to them what is Yiddishkeit, stories of Chassidim, stories of Mussar… Invest! And show a personal model.

"When I got married, I was at a great Tzaddik in Yerushalayim, he said to me – you are getting married, you'll have children, know that even when the children are small and don't know how to speak o r look, they know…

""Our public has to be united, to get rid of the envy and hatred. If the general public who realize they have harsh problems, if they were with us everything would be alright, they would connect, because they want that.

"This is what I have to say. That we should mend our ways, we should show others what a Torah life is about, the beauty.

"They talk of the issue of discriminating women. Chazal tell us over again how much one has to honor his wife. More than himself. They tell about R' Arye Levin that went with his wife to the doctor because her foot hurt. He said to the doctor: "Our foot hurts". The doctor asked: "What is our?" He answered: "Her foot is mine too".

"They tell of R' Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, the famous Gaon, who lived 70 years with his wife, maybe more. After her ptira, at the most critical moment, he stood next to her grave, as is the custom to ask forgiveness of the deceased, and said: "She knows that I have nothing to ask her forgiveness about, that I never hurt her". This is Torah! But this we don't explain! May we merit to do Kiddush Hashem and show the light of Torah and of Yiddishkeit, and we will arouse the mercy of Heaven upon us, so that the words "Barcheinu avinu kulanu ke'echad" will be fulfilled, and may we all have a Ksiva Vachasima Tova and a year of redemption".

'בחדרי' גם ברשתות החברתיות - הצטרפו!